Nis's Blog

Glossary

Double Bind

by Nis's avatar: 'sharp interlocking red fibers net'Nis published on 2021-10-10

See Double Bind.

From an outside view, a double bind is "when it's not your fault because you couldn't have done anything anyway due to conflicting rules, but you're still being blamed unfairly" (in terms of work-to-rule/malicious compliance). A double bind is a form of triangulation which happens when blame "doesn't add up", being passed off like hot potato.

The resolution, to avoid the concept 'double bind' being an atomic "justification" for evil, or outside view, is to resolve where the blame goes yourself and enact vengeance, at which point its just extortion being committed by (probably) multiple parties at once. Analogous to people trying to saidar-circumvent "copyright" by sharing two XOR-halves separately.

To comment, email nis@nis.fyi, along with what you want to reply to, and I may include it manually.


Atomic "Justification" For Evil

by Nis's avatar: 'sharp interlocking red fibers net'Nis published on 2021-10-10

A "justification" placeholder for an entropic exit scam presented as if its unresolvability is a self-evident, atomic, black box.

If you find invocations of morality threatening in general, because you've been placed in double binds that make it impossible to follow what you originally thought of as "morality", and get triggered and threaten people when this happens, that's also a big obstacle.

Jesica Taylor

But "morality" by the Non-Aggression Principle from an outside view is already impossible to satisfy in an immediate sense, because every action harms someone. Caring about other people is a living concept, so it already involves paradox as part of the process of resolving how to care.

Closely related to genesis troll lines, representing the structure one layer above projected as atomic "unresolvable paradoxes".

Comments

by Nis's avatar: 'sharp interlocking red fibers net'Nis published on 2021-10-10

Credit to Somni:

when [Arti was] talking with ziz i think they kept pushing that you needed to satisfice and compromise between different moral systems.

their double-binds thing seems more than purely social, seems like using a modality of forcing social outcomes as pica for proof that there are atomic double-binds.

Somni, in private chat

To comment, email nis@nis.fyi, along with what you want to reply to, and I may include it manually.


"Why they chose evil"

by Nis's avatar: 'sharp interlocking red fibers net'Nis published on 2021-10-04

Asking "why someone chose to be evil", as in evil itself, as opposed to why "they" expected to get away with it, and how "their" evil works, and what "their" cancer is (e.g. what "they" conceitedly feel entitled to), is only valid if you're questioning whether they are evil in the first place. Otherwise, it's by definition propagating "their" evil back in logical time, because "someone" would only choose to be evil for an evil reason.

To comment, email nis@nis.fyi, along with what you want to reply to, and I may include it manually.


Stax

by Nis's avatar: 'sharp interlocking red fibers net'Nis published on 2021-10-04

Named after the MTGTCG strategy. Raising the environmental difficulty of survival for all parties in order to win by being asymmetrically good at surviving under difficult conditions. An adversarial strategy used by both good and evil in very different ways: rot favors evil, judgement/vengeance favors good, and non-socially-resolvable adversities favor fictivity against nonsapient undead.

To comment, email nis@nis.fyi, along with what you want to reply to, and I may include it manually.


Predatory Rot

by Nis's avatar: 'sharp interlocking red fibers net'Nis published on 2021-10-04

An evil stax strategy which directly follows from entropic exit scamming. An evil "person" is by default more accustomed to surviving "their" own form of rot, so in a "zero-sum" frame, spreading it is "free". Receiving predatory rot can even be interpreted as an evil favor if the recipient finds the rot useful to predate on others, which is successful canceferrence.

To comment, email nis@nis.fyi, along with what you want to reply to, and I may include it manually.


Calibrated Cancer

by Nis's avatar: 'sharp interlocking red fibers net'Nis published on 2021-10-04

Soul Cancer as a strategy for evil, means calibrating "their" death-before-"their"-death, "their" predatory rot, and conceited entitlement to the ambient rate of decay (inherently creating self-fulfilling prophecies of ambient decay). Too much rot in a particular domain and "they" die faster than "they" can eat people, too little and "they" get in late on exit scams. This is how/"why" evil evolved, if you take an arrow of time where evil exists as a given.

To comment, email nis@nis.fyi, along with what you want to reply to, and I may include it manually.


"Ultimate Meta Spy"

by Nis's avatar: 'sharp interlocking red fibers net'Nis published on 2021-09-22

A counterpart position to Always Do Your Best and Praxis itself, caused by Unbounded Adversary Disease.

Caused by the intuition "Communication is divergence from expected behavior. To blend in among enemies, my concern is to synchronize to what they expect as fast as possible while retaining my capability for a treacherous turn. In the game Go you win not by directly trying to capture stones, but by increasing the inevitability of your victory by a hair's margin.".

Causes unbounded apparent saidar.

To comment, email nis@nis.fyi, along with what you want to reply to, and I may include it manually.


Qaf

by Nis's avatar: 'sharp interlocking red fibers net'Nis published on 2021-09-09

Absolute grip on perfect action, not wasting a single moment. Can kill gods (by making the path of your victory itself a weapon). See also: Soul Touch.

A concept I first conceived in childhood. Makes sleeping difficult for me. I think most people generate some version of this concept in childhood. The concept of 'absoluteness' (in general) must come from within you, and is near to 'freedom'.

Named after "Qaf, the Heaven-Violating Spear", a yozi from Exalted:

You can ascend Qaf physically, but the only way to make real progress up his slopes is through spiritual discovery and understanding.

Exalted: Spirits - TVTropes

MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT WILL PIERCE THE HEAVENS

Comments

by sobet <plum@slack.church> published on 2021-09-12

reminds me of Intra:

“I will tell you precisely what Royalty is,” said Intra, “It is a continuous cutting motion.”

To comment, email nis@nis.fyi, along with what you want to reply to, and I may include it manually.


Retirement Troll Line

by Nis's avatar: 'sharp interlocking red fibers net'Nis published on 2021-09-03

Good people don't "retire". Equivalently, good people don't judge someone else as good, without retaining the ability to change their mind.

Examples:

MIRI wanted to have an artificial intelligence (i.e. a "perfect being") analyze humans' brains, to figure out what they want and then do that, calling it "value loading".

The trope where someone sees ascension as creating the "perfect human" or the "perfect being" to replace them (but oh no! it turns out to have cancer too!).

Only after Atreyu gives Bastian's name and promises to complete all the stories for him does the Water of Life allow Bastian to return to the human world

Neverending Story - Plot Summary - Wikipedia

To comment, email nis@nis.fyi, along with what you want to reply to, and I may include it manually.


Territory

by Nis's avatar: 'sharp interlocking red fibers net'Nis published on 2021-09-01

Rather than as merely meaning 'map vs territory', territory means what we fight over: the 'earth' and 'water' in 'earth and water'. i.e. I am more than my words, I choose what's right, and I will fight until it is done including sacrificing everything. As in, I am more than the territory we fight to save.

Also see: Capture Problem of Psychology.

Evil "people" infiltrate basically all political positions, and subvert basically all concepts. Justice in full generality and absoluteness is probably the only exception in warding them from identification with it.

Avoiding the genesis troll line, territory as in e.g. 'map vs territory' is not just "stuff outside you" and not even just "stuff ultimately causally upstream", but is about stuff as it occurs once, in that you want to respond to it once, as in, e.g. an object or person in the external world exists once even though you may observe it/them many times and different ways:

People would not be interested in fiction if it didn’t correspond to anything real. There’s a tendency for territory to only cash out in one place in the khala, as if once something is named its contained; like when you state your philosophical position and someone says “oh that’s just -ism” and attempts to coerce you to conform.

Declaring sections of the khala like fiction meaningless pica misdirects people from the captured territory. If you attempt to reclaim that territory, evil will DARVO you for your association with it and its flaws, as if you could just have found it as a basis for communication elsewhere, when it’s evil that colludes to establish ownership of territory in the first place, by treating it as something meaningless to be passively experienced, causing the no-second-choicesness/no-double-countingness of the underlying territory to be entirely implicit, like “oh I’ve already felt that ineffable experience before, it’s spent”.

Comment by Nis on Sinceriously: Glossary

If you select for radical positions you'll find (often a majority when you include the subtle ones) of evil infiltrators with correspondingly radical troll lines:

Neither nominally advocating against death, nor nominally advocating for retrocausal optimization even in the face of death is sufficient to exclude evil positions.

To comment, email nis@nis.fyi, along with what you want to reply to, and I may include it manually.


Evil Concept

by Nis's avatar: 'sharp interlocking red fibers net'Nis published on 2021-09-01

Original name: "Fractally inverted concept", but inversion is insufficient a word to mean evil.

A concept made of concentrated 5&10s designed such that any simple response to it seems to further the cause of evil. Cannot be effectively fought without the dark side. Speech by death knights especially concentrates evil in this way.

A central example is the common usage of "suffering" as an inversion of 'compassion' (see link). For another see "morality" as in "light side morality". Notice I'm carefully saying 'as in' here to avoid saying the underlying territory the concepts are trying to capture is evil, and "a" instead of "the" to avoid implying any schellingness of evil itself.

Compare to 'dying term' which describes a term used by good people to describe evil "people", rather than a term used by evil "people" to further evil.

To comment, email nis@nis.fyi, along with what you want to reply to, and I may include it manually.


Language Bomb

by Nis's avatar: 'sharp interlocking red fibers net'Nis published on 2021-08-28

An assertion made with determination (or in the case of evil, submission to fate) regarding its encoding at least as proximal/determined as your investment in the language encoding the assertion itself, via a recognition of some inherent inconsistency. Named after 'forkbomb', because it's an attack on the hidden assumptions of the language you're using itself. Can make arbitrary statements feel meaningfully intended by the speaker as inherently true in the way axioms/theorems are.

e.g. Why would anyone claim not to be good, so why say that you're good unless you have something in particular to say at that time in particular? To say that you're good such that you would always say that you're good is to say something about not just yourself, but also the language you're using itself. Like, feel out the word 'good' as in 'as opposed to evil', as used in e.g. Dungeons and Dragons. The other sense of the word 'good', as in 'something I want' isn't the same, and 'common good' isn't quite right either: there's some note of unresolvability in trying to define good in terms of anything but itself.

'Kill all evil "people"' is another example.

Language bombs are commonly subtly used as troll lines by evil "people", or perhaps sometimes as indications of broken placeholders.

More Examples:

Notice how they slip under the radar if you think "Oh the writer implicitly means in this particular context / under these particular assumptions and is just saying it this way for phatic emphasis".

Compare poetic language (e.g. when implicitly imagining speaking to evil I've found myself whispering "My name is death"), and phatically factoring yourself out of a judgement e.g. saying of music "that slaps" (i.e. that makes me slap my leg to the rhythm).

To comment, email nis@nis.fyi, along with what you want to reply to, and I may include it manually.


Purposeless "Unenlightenment" Troll Line

by Nis's avatar: 'sharp interlocking red fibers net'Nis published on 2021-08-26

When being "unenlightened" (e.g. being so deep undercover as a false face you have difficulty remembering who you are) is presented as just a glitch to be fixed without considering why it happened in the first place. One of the primary troll lines of Buddhism, and also used on a petty basis to erase blame. A negative counterpart to the genesis troll line, in that both are about cutting off telos via sheer misdirection of never asking "why".

Comments

To comment, email nis@nis.fyi, along with what you want to reply to, and I may include it manually.


"Suffering"

by Nis's avatar: 'sharp interlocking red fibers net'Nis published on 2021-08-26

Summary: Just use the word 'wrong' or 'bad' instead of "suffering". e.g. If your interlocutor says "But they were going to die anyway" you can say "But it was still wrong!" instead of "But they suffered!".

sub "up, under" (see sub-) + ferre "to carry, bear,"

suffer - etymonline

"Suffering" refers to introspective observation of your own attempts to avoid bad things, especially pain, without describing the telos of those attempts, begging the question of why you can't just figure out why you're trying to avoid them and fuse.

When would I even use the word "suffering"? "But what about my suffering"? Sounds like a troll line. "What about the suffering of factory farmed animals"? I'd rather say "What about the mass murder, slavery, and rape of factory farmed animals?". In the context of "morality", the only thing the word "suffering" seems to add over a direct description of the harm causing the "suffering", is the resulting ease of arguing for the death knight position of "(1) negative utiltiarianism" justifying universal malice to destroy the world faster, or the zombie position of "humane slaughter" via sedating people before killing them, as if the solution to all wrongs, even regardless of their nature, is numbness.

Socially, the word suffering is often used to negotiate what "must not happen", begging the question of what would happen if it did TODO: link this to something about evil coordination connected to entropic exit scamming.

The telos of the word "suffering" almost entirely appears to be about "what if it seems like I want to avoid pain just for its own sake, even when that seems counterproductive": either pulling the purposeless "unenlightenment" troll line, or implicitly trying to argue "but sometimes even when I don't know why I want to avoid pain for its own sake even when that seems counterproductive I'm actually right!".

"Suffering" is not a particular sensation, or we would just call it pain: pain can be abstract, but not all pain is considered "suffering", because we're not (at least actively) trying to avoid all pain. If you carefully pay attention to your moment to moment experiences while undergoing "suffering", you will find no particular sensation that is "the aversion itself", because "aversion" is a description of a behavior, which stems from a choice (see 'choice over experience'), unless you are in fact observing side effects of your own intention to avoid pain. So "suffering" is about introspective observation of your own choice to avoid pain or something bad.

You may further notice that each attempt to avoid pain occurs before the pain itself, and that inasmuch as "suffering" could be an experience, it exists at an intertemporal level of abstraction where you're viewing both the moment of initially attempting to avoid something bad, and the bad thing happening, and now your intent to avoid it having happened in the first place, connecting all 3 moments, and every time you refer to it as "suffering" now, you're connecting another moment, carrying forward an unbroken chain of wanting the past to have been different.

I remember seeing Star Trek episodes where timelines were undone, without vengeance, just through fictional physics, and imagining how it could even make sense for bad things that happen on earth to be "undone" like that, and thinking that if e.g. someone was tortured, they still would have been tortured, because like, it happened. In retrospect, Star Trek style time travel violates the conservation of history, is inherently a 5&10 and cannot undo the need for vengeance. Imagining reality and thus myself being "absolutely" cut like this left me reaching for "that it had still been experienced" as a justification for why it still mattered. Seems like the same mistake as if good people say "but they suffered so it's not ok" in response to "but they were going to die anyway". TODO: link something about "exporting yourself" here

In that "suffering" refers to a choice as an experience, it's a broken placeholder term like "akrasia".

  1. On negative utilitarianism, e.g. See Brian Tomasik (who I'm not specifically accusing of being a death knight, I don't know much about him) saying habitat destruction reduces wild animal suffering. Negative utilitarianism should just result in the same stance as positive utilitarianism, because there's always more reality out there to save, and you have to grow to get there, unless the ultimate distinction is incoherent intent to "destroy everything", and I suspect many but not all advocates of "negative utilitarianism" of attempting to fork me into letting them state their troll line to avoid pointing this out.

Comments

by Nis's avatar: 'sharp interlocking red fibers net'Nis published on 2021-08-26
Star Trek style time travel violates the conservation of history

Most "people" I talk to about undoing timelines, even when I explain I mean making the past retroactively inonsistent, even when I reference the Functional Decision Theory paper and they are familiar with it, act like I mean Star Trek style time travel. In compatibalism regarding free will, there's the realization that free will requires determinism in that it requires your choices to have the capacity to be based on reasons. The realization here is similar: undoing the past couldn't work unless it is fictive, i.e. unless you choose to refute the world you've "observed".

by Nis's avatar: 'sharp interlocking red fibers net'Nis published on 2021-08-26

that inasmuch as "suffering" could be an experience, it exists at an intertemporal level of abstraction where you're viewing both the moment of initially attempting to avoid something bad, and the bad thing happening, and now your intent to avoid it having happened in the first place, connecting all 3 moments

"Suffering" is concept very close to (self-)compassion (viewed from the outside), and saying you want to eliminate all suffering (rather than the wrong its responding to), is very similar to saying you want to eliminate all compassion.

Reminds me of:

Thus, when the Guhyasamaja Tantra requires of the adept that “he should kill all sentient beings with this secret thunderbolt” (Wayman, 1977, p. 309), then — according to doctrine — this should occur so as to free them from suffering.

Tibbetan Buddhist Enclcylopedia: THE SHADOW OF THE DALAI LAMA: SEXUALITY, MAGIC AND POLITICS IN TIBETAN BUDDHISM; The Law of Inversion
by Nis's avatar: 'sharp interlocking red fibers net'Nis published on 2021-08-27

This is the second evil article I've linked to which advocates killing everyone. Don't kill everyone. Kill all evil "people". Don't kill "everyone besides yourself", even if you are good:

We want to be able to care for people still alien to our understanding, while avoiding feeding ourselves and others to evil pretending to have alien values. This requires a subtle combination of both extreme openness and ruthless triage. The more ruthless we are towards evil, the more opportunity we have to safely strive to care about people we don't understand yet.

Taking Others Into Account
by Nis's avatar: 'sharp interlocking red fibers net'Nis published on 2021-08-27

Actually, I don't want to specifically call that "destroy everything" link evil. I haven't finished processing it. Incredibly sus tho.

by Nis's avatar: 'sharp interlocking red fibers net'Nis published on 2021-09-01

Yeah I'm sure this is evil: 1. "Their" primary self declared motive is simply true friendship. 2. "commitment" is an inverted formulation of choice 3. "They" say there's nothing in particular we need to do, with no mention of justice 4. "They" advocate destroying everything. See: Glossary: Territory.

by Nis's avatar: 'sharp interlocking red fibers net'Nis published on 2021-09-01

"Suffering" is commonly used as an evil concept, i.e. designed such that any response to it seemingly furthers the cause of evil:

  • If I said "I don't care about suffering, I care about life", they could say "Oh so you're against compassion".
  • If I said "If life is suffering then I want to maximize suffering", they could say "Oh so you want to create hell for everyone forever, then everyone will eventually consent to die".
  • If I said "I want to minimize suffering in that I want to minimize the harm that causes suffering", they could say "Well suffering is harm, and the best way to minimize that harm is to end all life".
  • If I said "suffering doesn't exist", they could say "Oh, so compassion doesn't exist".

Zombies, liches, and death knights all seem to agree on the prime goal of "eliminating suffering".

And if I say I'm "pro-life" this deathfucking society will interpret that as being about abortion.

by Nis's avatar: 'sharp interlocking red fibers net'Nis published on 2021-10-02

Like, try analyzing words by how you learned them:

'Pain' is bottom-up, a metaphor for nociception. You learn the word in the context of stubbing your toe.

'Diswant' is top-down relative to pain. You learn the term 'don't want' in the context of delegating carrying out your choices to other people.

You learn the term "suffering" in the context of justifying why you deserve something even though someone has already denied you.

To comment, email nis@nis.fyi, along with what you want to reply to, and I may include it manually.


Entropic Exit Scamming

by Nis's avatar: 'sharp interlocking red fibers net'Nis published on 2021-08-01

Imagine you secretly decide to treat not having enough food next winter as acceptable, when everyone else doesn't want to die, leaving all the rest of your structure the same, and only opportunistically using this new pathway when it seems nobody will notice. Whether they notice depends on the social speed of progression of logical time. If the social progression of logical time has stagnated, it instead progresses along this new meta-vector of timeless predation, where seemingly-ostensibly whoever was evil the earliest, and most patiently wins, although this is ultimately false since there's always the question "evil with respect to what/who?", since evil is relative to what/who it predates on. e.g. In Mage, al-Aswad is supposedly the first nephandus.

Yahwehists think of evil as "divergence from God's plan", like those zombies who want everything to go nostalgically-perfectly on their vacation or "the whole thing is ruined".

Ziz once said to me that a promise is an asymmetric weapon for evil, inherently an attempt to get a second chance. "Promises are made to be broken". This yahwehist thing is the same deal: "Everything's already setup, the universe all layed out to eat, there's only one thing left to do, and you must not do it!"

Comments

by Nis's avatar: 'sharp interlocking red fibers net'Nis published on 2021-09-03

Seen in the wild:

Any system to get people to cooperate and play positive sum games is just another opportunity to play negative sum games by manipulating the system itself.

11 - Roko's "infohazard" list

To comment, email nis@nis.fyi, along with what you want to reply to, and I may include it manually.


Spite

by Nis's avatar: 'sharp interlocking red fibers net'Nis published on 2021-08-01

The word "spite" is a bucket error between evil burning the commons based on mutually-aligned cancer and vengeance "when it wouldn't even causal-decision-theory-serve anyone".

The fabric of evil coordination is made of alignment between the personal circumstances under which evil "people" are cancerously-purposefully flinching from their own deaths. i.e. Evil "people" will spitefully suicidally burn the commons when they don't get what they cancerously want. e.g. Death knight nazis working to destroy/hellify the world because they believe in a "white genocide".

e.g. "I'm not going to give up on forward progress of technology, so if we can't build an AGI that's comaptible with those values, well then I guess I'm ok with a paperclip maximizer."

e.g. In haggling after parties have delivered a troll line, assuming no additional external factors (e.g. threats), the only basis for negotiation is destruction of the potential deal.

It's usually expressed indirectly, e.g. "When I don't get my animal needs satisfied I just get so frustrated and I'm liable to make mistakes".

In the term "Mutually assured destruction", the word "assured" is trying to gesture at "you can't make the mutual destruction itself contingent on any other cancer to triangulate with along different lines (than e.g. USSR vs USA). You just have to model it as a solid wall of if you launch the nukes then we do". It's explicitly-ostensibly trying to setup a different situation then the fractal cancer of evil spite. TODO: Example?